The Transformative Power of Reading Aloud with Dr. Molly Ness
Erin Bailey, RIF’s VP of Literacy Programs & Research and podcast host, welcomes literacy expert Dr. Molly Ness to explore the power of reading aloud, highlighting its critical role in language development, emotional well-being, and building lifelong readers across all ages. Drawing on research and practice, Dr. Ness discusses the benefits of read alouds, orthographic mapping, and inclusive, creative approaches to literacy, while encouraging educators and families to engage thoughtfully with research and rediscover the joy of reading.
About Dr. Molly Ness:
Dr. Molly Ness is a former classroom teacher, reading researcher, and teacher educator with a doctorate from the University of Virginia and extensive experience leading literacy research, professional development, and national advocacy efforts. A frequent speaker and author, she translates the science of reading into practice, hosts the End Book Deserts podcast, and leads Dirigo Literacy to support schools in implementing evidence-based reading instruction.
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I wanna welcome Dr. Molly Ness.00:00:02.648 --> 00:00:05.948
I met Dr. Ness about a few years ago.00:00:05.948 --> 00:00:15.488
She did a webinar for the International Literacy Association on the importance of read alouds, and she started with showing a picture of her and her students.00:00:15.768 --> 00:00:17.658
That reminded me a lot of a picture of.00:00:18.143 --> 00:00:25.193
Myself and my students when I was just starting out teaching, and so I was immediately drawn into Molly and her work around read alouds.00:00:25.193 --> 00:00:31.853
I reached out to her and she has been a great fan of reading is fundamental and a great support to us ever since then.00:00:31.853 --> 00:00:33.713
So welcome Dr. Ness.00:00:34.818 --> 00:00:36.018
Oh, thanks for having me.00:00:36.018 --> 00:00:44.888
It's so great to talk about read alouds, which are the thing that kids love doing, that teachers love doing, that parents mostly enjoy doing.00:00:44.888 --> 00:00:48.788
So, I'm glad to have some time to, to really talk about why do them.00:00:49.418 --> 00:00:49.898
Awesome.00:00:49.898 --> 00:00:50.408
Thank you.00:00:50.678 --> 00:00:59.768
I'd love for you to start with our listeners, just a little bit of your background and how did you get into read alouds and discover their importance, you know, beyond just the joy that they bring.00:01:00.773 --> 00:01:01.223
Sure.00:01:01.453 --> 00:01:06.553
So I really started, well, so of course I was a classroom teacher that did read alouds.00:01:06.583 --> 00:01:11.828
I did them as a after lunch and recess kind of come back into the classroom like.00:01:12.553 --> 00:01:17.203
Cool down, focus your body and energy on like afternoon learning.00:01:17.203 --> 00:01:24.073
And I sort of saw that having this kind of calming effect, I didn't know all of the language comprehension benefits of read alouds.00:01:24.103 --> 00:01:26.503
So when I was a professor.00:01:27.268 --> 00:01:31.018
I started really digging into what does language comprehension even mean?00:01:31.268 --> 00:01:48.693
In all of these conversations we're having today about the science of reading, there's been a lot of focus on word identification and phonics and decoding, but we know that reading is this multifaceted process and we have to do intentional work to have kids understand how to use language.00:01:49.268 --> 00:01:51.998
And understand how to make meaning out of language.00:01:52.028 --> 00:01:55.598
And really one of the best ways to do that is a read aloud.00:01:55.598 --> 00:02:07.418
And so once I started getting into the research about the linguistic and academic benefits, like I then just found this whole other slew of benefits that kind of just amazed me.00:02:07.718 --> 00:02:12.158
Physiological benefits, socio-emotional benefits, psychological benefits.00:02:12.488 --> 00:02:16.878
And I really wanted to to remind people of that.00:02:17.308 --> 00:02:26.418
Read alouds are not one of those things that like we wish we could do, or we give kids as a reward for when their behavior's great.00:02:26.418 --> 00:02:32.508
Like it's one of those must to get to do or want to do, have to do, should do all of those things.00:02:32.568 --> 00:02:36.588
And it's really the cornerstone of effective literacy instruction.00:02:38.083 --> 00:02:53.753
That resonates with me a lot thinking about even my own kids because, and I spoke with somebody else about this recently too, that read alouds shouldn't be something that you take away or hold to a time and like what you're describing, it's after recess.00:02:53.753 --> 00:02:57.593
But what if on this one day we have to do, you know, X, Y, and Z?00:02:57.803 --> 00:03:01.043
But what you're saying is don't cut out the read aloud.00:03:01.043 --> 00:03:03.013
And I know I, I've been tempted to even do it with.00:03:03.318 --> 00:03:04.428
My own child.00:03:04.638 --> 00:03:11.508
You know, it's night, it's getting late, and okay, we can finish watching this movie, but that means we're not reading two books tonight.00:03:11.508 --> 00:03:14.388
And I've had to reframe my thinking of it.00:03:14.388 --> 00:03:15.588
It has to be a given.00:03:15.588 --> 00:03:17.418
It's not something that you're gonna cut out.00:03:18.363 --> 00:03:20.458
Yeah and I'll say as a parent, I am guilty of.00:03:20.703 --> 00:03:24.453
Like all of the, you know, quote unquote punishments.00:03:24.533 --> 00:03:37.083
And the context that I always think of is many people are familiar with the beloved children's book, Ms. Nelson is missing, which I hear that they're making actually into a Netflix series with Melissa McCarthy playing Ms.00:03:37.083 --> 00:03:38.793
Nelson slash Ms. Villa Swamp.00:03:38.883 --> 00:03:39.963
Great book.00:03:39.963 --> 00:03:41.013
I love that book.00:03:41.373 --> 00:03:43.213
But and let me refresh people's memory of it.00:03:44.158 --> 00:03:46.858
There's these kids in school, they're misbehaving.00:03:47.128 --> 00:04:00.808
So their teacher, who is this lovely docile sweet woman, she decides something has to be done about their behavior, and so in their, in her place, the next day shows up this mean wicked, cruel substitute teacher.00:04:01.403 --> 00:04:07.763
And she puts them right to work and the first punishment she gives them is says, there will be no story hour today.00:04:08.033 --> 00:04:10.373
And I love that book for so many reasons.00:04:10.373 --> 00:04:13.403
Character study and inferencing and just all of it.00:04:13.673 --> 00:04:19.103
But the one thing I hate about that book is that the punishment is no story hour.00:04:19.103 --> 00:04:23.153
Because again, it's not one of those, oh, it's a reward.00:04:23.848 --> 00:04:29.318
Or it's the first thing to go when I'm busy or you know, kids are just having one of those days.00:04:29.318 --> 00:04:31.508
It's a must do, should do, have to do, get to do.00:04:32.783 --> 00:04:33.348
I love that.00:04:33.708 --> 00:04:37.188
And the other thing I love when you talk about is the importance of.00:04:37.488 --> 00:04:45.458
Of reading aloud from birth, and I'm even one of those moms who read aloud when, you know, when I was pregnant in the womb.00:04:45.708 --> 00:04:48.588
And I did it knowing in my heart that it was Right.00:04:48.588 --> 00:04:51.738
But you've shared some great research around that.00:04:51.738 --> 00:04:53.628
So I'd love if you can elaborate more.00:04:53.818 --> 00:05:02.128
What does research say about reading aloud to infants and toddlers, and what advice do you have for any parents that just are worried they're not gonna get it right.00:05:02.913 --> 00:05:03.243
Sure.00:05:03.273 --> 00:05:09.423
Well, your mom instinct was spot on in terms of reading to babies in utero.00:05:09.713 --> 00:05:14.423
Because what we're doing is first of all, familiarizing themselves with the.00:05:15.173 --> 00:05:21.773
Rhythm and prosody of language, and also just increasing any parent caregiver bonding.00:05:22.053 --> 00:05:38.503
But there's some pretty astounding studies that show that when babies are in the nicu, the neonatal intensive care unit when their parents and caregivers read to them, we see a decrease in their heart rate and an increase in their blood oxygen.00:05:38.503 --> 00:05:40.963
So in other words, these babies are literally like.00:05:41.608 --> 00:05:47.338
Living in this stressed environment, these incubators and all these wa wires and monitors and such.00:05:47.338 --> 00:05:51.718
And by reading aloud to them, we see medical homeostasis.00:05:51.718 --> 00:06:01.168
So, a calming effect on their blood rates, their respiratory rates, not just during the read aloud, but for up to an hour after the read aloud.00:06:01.168 --> 00:06:06.298
And that science has been got taken into account by lots of NICUs all over the country.00:06:06.668 --> 00:06:23.308
By places like the American Academy of Pediatrics, understanding how important it is to read aloud to babies literally from, you know, utero all the way up to, and I'll actually say we don't actually grow out of read alouds or age out of read alouds.00:06:23.458 --> 00:06:30.618
There's a reason the audio book industry is doing as well as it is because people enjoy read alouds and whatever format they're in.00:06:30.768 --> 00:06:31.908
And so it's not one of those like.00:06:32.288 --> 00:06:36.818
Oh, I'll do it until they're eight years old and then I'll, you know, take the read all out away.00:06:37.648 --> 00:06:38.728
Yeah, I love that.00:06:38.808 --> 00:06:43.368
I think what you're saying about adults loving read aloud too, resonates with me a lot.00:06:43.368 --> 00:06:48.223
And I've found, and I am sure there's some documentation about this too, that a lot of times adults love.00:06:48.538 --> 00:06:51.868
Of read alouds when it's a familiar voice reading it.00:06:51.868 --> 00:06:58.028
So maybe an actor that they know, or even the author themselves, and kids find that too.00:06:58.058 --> 00:06:58.448
Right?00:06:58.498 --> 00:07:03.958
Kids respond really well to when authors and illustrators read aloud their books to them.00:07:03.958 --> 00:07:05.788
Can you share a little bit about that?00:07:06.368 --> 00:07:06.818
Sure.00:07:06.868 --> 00:07:07.168
Yeah.00:07:07.168 --> 00:07:16.368
And there are like when we think about awards, seasons for TV shows and for films and such, there are audiobook awards for delivery.00:07:16.398 --> 00:07:19.608
If you've ever listened to like the Harry Potter series, the author.00:07:20.028 --> 00:07:25.338
Jim Dale always used to win all of the awards for his delivery of audio books and those read alouds.00:07:25.578 --> 00:07:35.418
So yeah, there's a absolutely a power in any experience readers of any age have when they interact with the author or illustrator.00:07:35.418 --> 00:07:41.378
So, there's a reason when you go to book fairs and authors do school visits that there is a connection.00:07:42.013 --> 00:07:45.953
See an increase in kids' identities as readers.00:07:45.953 --> 00:07:51.773
Like you go and you see, you know, the author of the I Survived series.00:07:51.773 --> 00:07:53.063
She was at a local book fair.00:07:53.063 --> 00:07:57.773
Your school brought her in or what have you, or even you watch a video of her doing the read aloud on YouTube.00:07:58.678 --> 00:08:12.028
You naturally gravitate towards those books again because you've had this personal connection and that personal connection may not necessarily, you know, they're not sitting next to you at the dining room table, but you're hearing their voice, you're hearing their background on why they chose it.00:08:12.298 --> 00:08:15.988
You're, you know, recounting the time that they signed the book and they gave it to you.00:08:16.258 --> 00:08:24.378
I noticed this myself when I am at conferences or bookstores and there's an author that is coming, I'm more eager to dive into those books.00:08:24.378 --> 00:08:32.618
And so, we absolutely have to create those interpersonal connections between readers of any age and the author and illustrator.00:08:32.618 --> 00:08:45.928
And I will say children's book authors and illustrators are so generous with their time and resources and really have facilitated that really just so well in places like retail rally and reading is fundamental.00:08:46.258 --> 00:08:47.908
So the more that we can do that, the better.00:08:47.908 --> 00:08:50.518
And the, what are we showing kids we're giving them?00:08:51.118 --> 00:08:53.998
A verification that they are a reader.00:08:53.998 --> 00:09:02.298
You are more likely to identify yourself as a reader when you have these interpersonal connections between yourself and the person, the creator of these books.00:09:03.441 --> 00:09:09.116
Absolutely, and I. As a child, I never had an author come speak to my school.00:09:09.116 --> 00:09:12.806
It's not an experience I had, but I know how impactful it is for kids.00:09:12.806 --> 00:09:16.106
And I think about myself as a child.00:09:16.106 --> 00:09:23.216
I was very artistic and I would've loved if an illustrator came and demonstrated how they illustrated the books.00:09:23.216 --> 00:09:32.341
And it's very tangible then to see yourself in that profession, to see yourself as a reader, a writer, an artist if you meet somebody and get to connect with them that way.00:09:32.996 --> 00:09:34.076
That you're talking about.00:09:34.076 --> 00:09:35.416
So, thank you for that.00:09:35.416 --> 00:09:39.766
So I wanna talk about the interactions that happen during read alouds.00:09:39.766 --> 00:09:45.076
So, as I mentioned, you know, I've been reading to my children since before they were even born.00:09:45.316 --> 00:09:49.306
What about families who haven't had those opportunities yet?00:09:49.366 --> 00:09:58.456
Are there ways that families and educators can help kids catch up if they haven't come from rich reading aloud experiences in their homes?00:09:59.221 --> 00:10:01.771
Well, I will say that it's never too late to start.00:10:01.821 --> 00:10:09.681
You can grab your 14-year-old and start the read aloud, and we have to push past this notion that there's a right or wrong.00:10:10.001 --> 00:10:11.291
Way to read aloud.00:10:11.371 --> 00:10:16.261
We're often, as parents told, like, oh, the bedtime story and read aloud before bedtime.00:10:16.321 --> 00:10:21.791
That may not work for every family and every home and every, you know, lifestyle.00:10:21.791 --> 00:10:27.011
So we have to make sure that parents and caregivers are getting the verification and the messaging that.00:10:27.781 --> 00:10:30.901
Make your read alouds work for you and for your schedule.00:10:31.081 --> 00:10:37.011
That also means that read aloud can be in a language other than English.00:10:37.011 --> 00:10:40.926
So I'm often asked by parents, I, you know, I can only read in Spanish.00:10:40.926 --> 00:10:41.646
Is that okay?00:10:41.646 --> 00:10:42.216
Yes.00:10:42.216 --> 00:10:45.186
It's amazing that you're reading to your child in that language.00:10:45.556 --> 00:10:47.086
When I work with parents and caregivers.00:10:48.316 --> 00:10:52.186
That don't consider themselves readers or maybe not literate themselves.00:10:52.336 --> 00:10:54.316
Wordless picture books are amazing.00:10:54.496 --> 00:11:00.736
You can grab a wordless picture book and create the story with your child and what are you doing there?00:11:01.246 --> 00:11:06.736
Bathing them in language structures and that shared interaction around a text.00:11:06.736 --> 00:11:14.146
That is a visual text, but we are still getting all of those benefits, so there's no right or wrong way.00:11:14.506 --> 00:11:16.126
It's never too late to start.00:11:16.156 --> 00:11:21.606
And there's just so many ways to do it in text that is engaging or relevant to the child.00:11:21.936 --> 00:11:27.286
I I'm super excited about like all of these different innovative programs around read alouds in my community.00:11:27.706 --> 00:11:28.666
There's a retirement center.00:11:30.121 --> 00:11:41.991
That the re folks from the retirement center will come and sit at the public library and they're paired with a struggling reader who's K through two, and they do some read aloud works.00:11:42.241 --> 00:11:50.851
There's all these now studies where kids are going to animal shelters or the pound and literally reading aloud to animals in the pound.00:11:50.851 --> 00:11:52.251
And why are they doing that?00:11:52.251 --> 00:11:52.521
Well.00:11:52.866 --> 00:11:54.486
Kids are getting fluency practice.00:11:54.516 --> 00:11:58.476
They are in a place that's safe and nonjudgmental.00:11:58.836 --> 00:12:04.596
They're getting all the benefits and you know, and as another side benefit, a lot of those dogs end up adopted.00:12:04.596 --> 00:12:11.016
So there's all these just creative ways to embrace the readout in different formats and ways.00:12:11.016 --> 00:12:16.116
So there isn't just this one way, it should look for every classroom or every home.00:12:17.756 --> 00:12:22.116
I appreciate that it can start anytime to that parent out there who's never read aloud with.00:12:22.371 --> 00:12:38.841
With the 14-year-old and the idea of a wordless picture book, I'm thinking even family photo albums are a great way it's similar to a wordless picture book, and you can read aloud by recreating the stories that went with the photos and the language piece too.00:12:38.841 --> 00:12:43.071
I think what people don't realize is a lot of things transfer from.00:12:43.386 --> 00:12:44.406
Different languages.00:12:44.406 --> 00:12:51.966
So some things like the directionality of print, the, you know, being able to point to a word, knowing the difference between a word and a picture.00:12:52.116 --> 00:13:00.746
These are things that, regardless of the language you know, kids can learn through reading aloud with their parent and they transfer very well to English reading development.00:13:00.806 --> 00:13:01.946
So, thank you.00:13:02.231 --> 00:13:02.561
Sure.00:13:02.561 --> 00:13:03.571
And when we talk.00:13:04.621 --> 00:13:07.951
When we talk about literacy is more than just reading and writing.00:13:07.951 --> 00:13:09.241
It's listening and speaking.00:13:09.241 --> 00:13:16.181
And so when you're talking about having them quote unquote read photo albums or tell the stories of their childhood, what are you getting?00:13:16.241 --> 00:13:23.201
Language, you're getting the listening and speaking, which is the springboard from which all other literacy experiences start.00:13:24.321 --> 00:13:24.951
Absolutely.00:13:24.981 --> 00:13:31.131
I'm gonna shift a little bit and throw out another word that our listeners might not be familiar with, and that is orthographic mapping.00:13:31.131 --> 00:13:37.251
So you've written extensively about read alouds, and then you had a new book come out about orthographic mapping.00:13:37.251 --> 00:13:41.451
And I'm a super nerd who was a big fan of orthographic mapping myself.00:13:41.451 --> 00:13:44.281
So when that book came out, I was like I love it.00:13:44.311 --> 00:13:45.991
Thank you, Dr. Molly Ness.00:13:45.991 --> 00:13:46.651
Can you.00:13:47.116 --> 00:13:49.216
Unpack it a little bit for our listeners.00:13:49.216 --> 00:13:53.891
What is orthographic mapping and what is the connection to read alouds if there is any?00:13:55.176 --> 00:13:55.446
Sure.00:13:55.446 --> 00:14:00.726
So, I mean, orthographic mapping, does that not sound like the coolest most, you know.00:14:01.461 --> 00:14:03.261
Approachable term ever.00:14:03.261 --> 00:14:15.411
Like I always get frustrated with in academia how we write these things that like live in these peer reviewed journals that don't actually really influence what goes on in a classroom in Nebraska on a Tuesday afternoon.00:14:15.621 --> 00:14:29.121
So I read the research around orthographic mapping back in grad school and it never really made its way into the hands of those who need it, which are classroom teachers and school leaders and orthographic mapping.00:14:30.096 --> 00:14:38.076
Is this invisible behind the scenes cognitive process by which we instantly recognize words.00:14:38.076 --> 00:14:44.826
So if you think about yourself as an adult reader, you spend almost no time during your everyday life.00:14:45.036 --> 00:14:48.486
Decoding words, almost every word that you encounter.00:14:48.846 --> 00:14:55.626
You recognize instantly, maybe, you know, if you're driving in a new state or a new town, you have to like decode multi-syllabic words.00:14:55.896 --> 00:15:02.016
Or if you're given a class roster, proper nouns, but for the most part, you've spent almost no time.00:15:02.826 --> 00:15:03.936
Decoding anything.00:15:04.086 --> 00:15:05.646
And why does that matter?00:15:05.856 --> 00:15:14.376
Because if you don't decode, you free up cognitive energy to focus on comprehension, which is really the point of reading.00:15:14.736 --> 00:15:22.146
So orthographic mapping explains how those words got into our long-term memory so that we instantly recognize them.00:15:22.526 --> 00:15:28.076
We know that adult readers have about 50,000 words that they instantly recognize they were not.00:15:28.391 --> 00:15:34.541
Acquired by memorizing words, so like what I did as a classroom teacher, which was flashcards.00:15:35.696 --> 00:15:38.966
Wrote memorization and write the spelling word three times.00:15:39.146 --> 00:15:43.126
It didn't help to make the word stick with orthographic mapping.00:15:43.276 --> 00:15:57.406
And it's kind of this trifecta of seeing a word, so looking at how it's spelled, hearing the word, so the phonology or the sound structure of the word, and then using the word, so knowing its application and its definition.00:15:57.406 --> 00:16:00.856
And when we have those three things that sort of glue onto each other.00:16:01.536 --> 00:16:04.476
The word becomes an instantly recognized word.00:16:06.101 --> 00:16:06.726
That's great.00:16:06.726 --> 00:16:07.146
Thank you.00:16:07.146 --> 00:16:11.676
And can that be taught to, I mean, I'm, as that gets taught a alongside.00:16:12.456 --> 00:16:17.646
Read alouds, so you can build that language comprehension through the read alouds.00:16:17.646 --> 00:16:23.086
That piece is always there because it's through your oral language, through your listening skills.00:16:23.296 --> 00:16:34.396
And then as readers start to grow in their orthographic mapping, those comprehension skills that they already had, their mind is being freed up to be able to comprehend the tech steeper.00:16:35.011 --> 00:16:35.371
Sure.00:16:35.371 --> 00:16:37.651
And as I do things like.00:16:37.956 --> 00:16:58.786
When readers are developing and as I read aloud to them and then point out the word to them so that they're seeing the representation of the word, they're hearing me say and
pronounce the word, and then they're getting the understanding of how the word is defined or used from the context I'm building their ability to to orthographically map those words.00:16:59.556 --> 00:17:03.276
I hope that more teachers will start using it 'cause it's been around for a while, right?00:17:03.276 --> 00:17:04.686
Since the eighties or so.00:17:05.391 --> 00:17:05.601
Yeah.00:17:05.631 --> 00:17:09.701
Lya Airy wrote about it in the 1990s.00:17:09.741 --> 00:17:14.631
And Lya Airy is probably like, I mean, she's just this living literacy legend.00:17:14.631 --> 00:17:23.371
I gave a talk this past summer with my co-author Katie Pace, miles about orthographic mapping and Area was in the audience, and so the whole.00:17:23.986 --> 00:17:26.356
Talk is basically citing her research.00:17:26.686 --> 00:17:32.046
There's no anxiety like citing the research to the researcher in the in the second row.00:17:32.136 --> 00:17:33.936
And she's like the loveliest woman ever.00:17:34.246 --> 00:17:42.526
At one point somebody asked, in the audience, asked a question and my co-author and I sort of looked at each other and we said, Dr. A, would you like to answer this one for us?00:17:42.586 --> 00:17:44.746
And she gave this brilliant answer.00:17:44.956 --> 00:17:47.296
And when, you know, orthographic mapping.00:17:48.271 --> 00:17:59.221
You start to understand why some of the things we do in classrooms don't really help, like, you know, flashcards and writing, spelling words in alphabetical order and all of those things.00:17:59.701 --> 00:18:03.181
And you also start to understand why.00:18:03.826 --> 00:18:09.746
What looks like struggling readers their struggles are with comprehension.00:18:09.806 --> 00:18:18.346
So in other words I'm doing a lot of work now in middle schools and middle school teachers will say to me, my kids can't comprehend the science book or the social studies book.00:18:18.346 --> 00:18:21.286
Like, teach me a comprehension strategy to address that.00:18:21.826 --> 00:18:27.886
And I'll have to say, it's not actually a comprehension thing, it's that those kids don't have enough words.00:18:28.231 --> 00:18:29.641
Orthographically mapped.00:18:29.641 --> 00:18:34.411
They don't have a big enough body of instant words that they recognize.00:18:34.741 --> 00:18:44.671
So what they're doing is they're taking that precious cognitive energy, focusing in on decoding a word like filibuster or photosynthesis or some of those things that kids encounter.00:18:45.181 --> 00:18:49.771
And then what we see is this, they can't understand.00:18:50.551 --> 00:18:55.711
Really, they're just using up all of their energy and decoding so that they can't get to comprehension.00:18:55.711 --> 00:19:05.131
So once you start to understand orthographic mapping, you're like, okay, now I get why If I just teach comprehension strategies, I'm putting a bandaid on a gaping wound.00:19:05.691 --> 00:19:06.681
Yeah, absolutely.00:19:06.951 --> 00:19:17.961
And what you're describing is what's often referred to as the research to practice gap, and so we're looking at research that has been around for decades, but really isn't taking place.00:19:18.621 --> 00:19:21.231
Into classrooms until now.00:19:21.291 --> 00:19:24.741
Is there, I mean, what can we do about that?00:19:24.931 --> 00:19:27.421
Yeah, so it's something I think about all the time.00:19:27.501 --> 00:19:44.271
And this research shows, particularly in social sciences like education, it's usually about to 10 to 20 years between when something appears in a peer reviewed journal and then actually makes its way into curriculum or publisher creative materials or just the general classroom practice.00:19:44.271 --> 00:19:45.441
And then at that point.00:19:46.296 --> 00:19:48.216
Research has moved into a different direction.00:19:48.366 --> 00:19:49.836
So what can we do about it?00:19:50.036 --> 00:19:53.866
Well, first of all, I think we are at an exciting time in the literacy landscape.00:19:53.866 --> 00:20:04.126
And by that, I mean, never in my career of 30 years have people been clamoring for the research in the way that they are now.00:20:04.516 --> 00:20:08.801
And I love that, that now when I can't get away, like when I give a talk.00:20:09.496 --> 00:20:15.346
10 years ago, I used to be able to say like, research shows and not really cite it and just have this blanket statement.00:20:15.556 --> 00:20:20.416
Now people are like looking under the hood and kicking the tires and they're like, show me the research.00:20:20.446 --> 00:20:21.676
And good for them.00:20:21.676 --> 00:20:23.176
Like I, I love that people are.00:20:23.956 --> 00:20:29.176
Are being critical consumers because that's where change and transformation happens.00:20:29.176 --> 00:20:37.346
And so, I think there's so many different ways that we're bridging the research to practice gap in terms of webinars and podcasts.00:20:37.346 --> 00:20:45.506
And I know I always joke that the way that I do it at the individual level is I violate copyright law and send these articles out to people who ask.00:20:45.586 --> 00:20:51.316
I hope my sister is not listening to this podcast because the great irony is that she's actually a copyright lawyer.00:20:51.706 --> 00:21:00.406
And so when she finds out that like if somebody emails me and is like, Hey, can you send me the 2015 PDF of whatever, I'm like, here you go.00:21:01.146 --> 00:21:03.096
Which you're not technically supposed to do.00:21:03.096 --> 00:21:07.686
So now I've totally confessed and like the copyright police are like knocking on my front door.00:21:07.906 --> 00:21:15.806
So I think there are things that we can individually do as well as collectively do to really narrow the research to practice pipeline.00:21:16.296 --> 00:21:17.826
I couldn't agree more.00:21:17.826 --> 00:21:22.916
And I mean, there's something to be said too about who does research belong to.00:21:23.196 --> 00:21:25.416
And I think research belongs to everyone.00:21:25.416 --> 00:21:26.011
And I love that too.00:21:26.011 --> 00:21:32.191
Be I, because I used to teach a course on reading and literacy research and what I would say the very first day of.00:21:32.491 --> 00:21:46.261
Class is, you know, regardless of what kind of individual theory or philosophy you as an educator is going to develop about reading instruction, I want you to become critical consumers of research.00:21:46.501 --> 00:21:52.081
And I do see that happening more, and I think it's is because of the different channels that we're using now.00:21:52.081 --> 00:21:57.811
We can break down research on webinars, on podcasts, on ways that it's easily accessible for people.00:21:58.021 --> 00:22:01.141
And it's great that they do come to you and wanna read the original.00:22:01.331 --> 00:22:06.191
Article as well, but I think those kinds of things should be more open access.00:22:06.191 --> 00:22:10.481
I think, you know, I go to a lot of conferences that are research focused conferences.00:22:10.721 --> 00:22:12.611
There's hardly ever educators there.00:22:12.611 --> 00:22:15.081
I think we should do more more together.00:22:16.216 --> 00:22:25.096
Yeah and it, for the people who are on the flip side of being the consumers of research, I always tell people, reach out.00:22:25.126 --> 00:22:34.156
If you find so and so wrote this article that like you're dying to read, but when you go and Google it, you come to this paywall.00:22:34.676 --> 00:22:44.846
Email that person, I promise Dr. Soandso will gladly send it because they're like, oh my gosh, somebody actually cares that I wrote something about orthographic mapping or whatever.00:22:44.996 --> 00:22:45.836
You wanna read it?00:22:45.896 --> 00:22:46.736
Here you go.00:22:46.986 --> 00:22:52.916
So I've never had the experience where res of researchers themselves haven't gotten back to me to share out their work and contribu.00:22:54.806 --> 00:22:55.046
Absolutely.00:22:55.411 --> 00:22:59.251
So you mentioned, you know, now is a really great time and literacy and research.00:22:59.521 --> 00:23:02.401
What should educators and families be.00:23:02.401 --> 00:23:05.041
Paying attention to over the next three to five years.00:23:05.041 --> 00:23:07.711
What excites you in the literacy research space?00:23:09.011 --> 00:23:15.071
So I am super excited how interdisciplinary the conversations about literacy have become.00:23:15.381 --> 00:23:21.121
I mean, I've lived in this little reading bubble for, again, three decades and never in my career have there been.00:23:22.006 --> 00:23:35.496
Podcasts and documentary films and conferences in the New York Times and all of these people looking at conversations about literacy and I mean people from lots of different.00:23:36.141 --> 00:24:01.031
Seats at the table, pediatricians, sociologists, psychologists, all of these people are coming to the table and saying reading matters so much, not only to individual children and their life
trajectory, but so much to our global output, our economic health, our society, that we gotta get it right and we have to be interdisciplinary in the way that we share our knowledge and transform this.00:24:01.031 --> 00:24:04.091
So I'm super excited about that interdisciplinary focus.00:24:04.526 --> 00:24:17.236
And I think we're starting to see what began as conversations really at the K through two level are starting to gain traction and move up into grade levels.00:24:17.476 --> 00:24:28.276
I'm doing some work, as I said, at middle schools and people are really saying like, okay, this whole science of reading thing, like what's it mean for me as a seventh grade biology teacher or a 10th grade history teacher?00:24:28.396 --> 00:24:31.016
And that's when we really start to have.00:24:31.811 --> 00:24:37.331
Great conversations about effective literacy instruction across content areas and across grade levels.00:24:37.821 --> 00:24:48.691
Yeah, we used to say at my school, every teacher is a reading teacher and every teacher needs to be prepared to support reading because every domain, every discipline uses reading to some.00:24:49.081 --> 00:24:49.681
Degree.00:24:49.681 --> 00:24:50.981
So I agree.00:24:51.231 --> 00:24:52.821
This is our last question.00:24:52.821 --> 00:24:55.371
Since this podcast is called Reading Inspires.00:24:55.371 --> 00:24:59.391
I always end by asking our guest, what does Reading inspire for you?00:25:00.676 --> 00:25:01.456
Oh wow.00:25:01.456 --> 00:25:04.556
How long do you have reading inspires?00:25:04.606 --> 00:25:07.936
Well, I'll kind of answer it as my personal reading.00:25:07.966 --> 00:25:10.336
Obviously I do a lot of professional reading.00:25:10.336 --> 00:25:10.671
If you look at.00:25:11.331 --> 00:25:21.381
What I'm reading on a daily basis, it's meta-analyses and it's the latest research, so obviously that inspires my intellectual curiosity, but my personal reading.00:25:22.891 --> 00:25:25.751
Is not particularly.00:25:26.891 --> 00:25:28.151
Let's see, lofty.00:25:28.181 --> 00:25:38.441
And by that I mean I'm reading a lot of like beach lit and, you know, chick lit. And you know, right now I'm reading the latest Dan Brown mystery book.00:25:39.281 --> 00:25:46.631
And I used to feel kind of bad about it because like, it's not necessarily, you know, withering heights or it's not this like high value high.00:25:47.321 --> 00:25:51.341
You know, conversation, like you don't go to a cocktail party.00:25:51.341 --> 00:25:58.241
Not that I go to cocktail parties anymore, but you know, you don't sort of say like, oh yeah, I'm just, you know, plowing through the newest, you know, mystery book.00:25:58.511 --> 00:26:01.601
It's, you're not ex, there's a little bit of a judgment.00:26:02.111 --> 00:26:10.831
And I will say for now, my personal reading brings about rejuvenation and just a.00:26:11.346 --> 00:26:20.036
A respite from the reality of the world as well as my intellectual intellectually overstimulated brain.00:26:20.066 --> 00:26:20.126
So.00:26:21.216 --> 00:26:28.926
I'm trying to give myself some grace and say like, okay, we gravitate towards whatever kind of book that we need at certain points of our lives.00:26:28.926 --> 00:26:33.996
And right now my personal reading, I'm gravitating towards the brain candy sort of stuff and that's okay.00:26:34.056 --> 00:26:39.636
And maybe someday I'll wanna read, you know, war and Peace, but it's not that time now.00:26:40.026 --> 00:26:48.656
And I think we, the grace that I often ask us as parents and as teachers to have and not passing judgment on our kids as readers.00:26:48.836 --> 00:26:54.266
We also have to give to ourselves as readers and be okay with whatever we're reading in whatever time.00:26:55.776 --> 00:27:07.356
I'm sure all of our listeners appreciate that permission, the same way we give permission to our children to read what brings you joy and what inspires you in that moment and your living proof of that.00:27:07.356 --> 00:27:08.646
Thank you so much, Molly.00:27:09.236 --> 00:27:10.346
My pleasure.
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